JoJo Siwa's Ex Kath Ebbs Breaks Down Split, Addresses Grooming Allegations

In a 90-minute episode of their podcast, Conversations with Kath, posted on Wednesday, the 27-year-old -- who is non-binary and uses they/them pronouns -- opened up about their split from Siwa, recalling the moment they called it quits at the wrap party for Celebrity Big Brother UK after Siwa's stint on the reality series.

Ebbs first revealed that the pair had broken up in a since-deleted TikTok video they shared on April 26, saying Siwa broke up with them at the CBB UK wrap party. The split sparked rumors that Siwa's close friendship with Love Island alum Chris Hughes may have been the reason behind the breakup.

On their podcast, Ebbs emotionally reflected on the now-public split, shared their thoughts on Hughes' and Siwa's relationship, addressed claims of grooming, and more.

Ebbs said they were initially hesitant to attend the wrap party, revealing they suffered a "the world's biggest meltdown" after they first saw a clip of Siwa and Hughes in bed together, and subsequently "stopped watching" the show. Ebbs said they were also grappling with grief over the anniversary of the death of a close friend, but were ultimately convinced by their family to go to the CBB UK wrap party -- although they chose not to appear in the finale episode.

Ebbs then recalled when they reunited with Siwa after her time in the House.

"As soon as she was off camera, the welfare team took them straight to the room that I was in because I watched it on TV, but I was just in a room," they said. "We hugged and we said, 'Oh my God hi...'"

"We hugged, we kissed... we just, like, held each other for ages. And I think I was crying," Ebbs continued. "And then I did say at one point, 'Are we good like this?' And she was like, 'Yeah.' And then I was like, 'Great!' and then we kissed, she was obviously, like, very spun out. She'd just been in this crazy thing."

According to Ebbs, the welfare team was relaying their words to Siwa, including how they were hesitant to attend the after party and that they were not interested in meeting Hughes.

Ebbs recalled how they spoke to Siwa about whether or not they were going to attend, admitting they could immediately tell something was awry and felt "funny." They went on to share their recollection of events at the now-infamous after party, noting that their dad encouraged them to attend.

"I walked in and kind of like walked in sort of with the vibe of like, 'Let's party' ... and she just had this like stunned look on her face," they recalled.

"Not stunned, just like something was up, I didn't know what. I went straight towards her and grabbed her, and like said, 'Are you OK?' And she said, 'No, no, no.' ... So she sat down," they continued. "I sat down and I just said, 'What's going on, babe? What's wrong?' And she started breaking up with me."

"I was literally sitting there, just like so anxious, to be honest, and so devastated that this was happening," they added, noting they were in "shock' as they tried to process.

Ebbs continued, "And the conversation just, I don't even know how long it went on for. I'm guessing it was a while because by the time someone came in, we had to leave. It was hard because I kept trying to say to her, 'Give it a beat,' not because of wanting to save it. Everyone can break up with whoever they want whenever they want. Unfortunately, it's the sad rule of life."

Ebbs noted that their now-ex was unaware of what they had gone through while she was on Celebrity Big Brother UK.

"But I knew she had, she didn't have any idea what had gone on. She didn't know what I'd been through. She didn't, she had no f--king clue," they said. "And I didn't want to bring that out there. But I was like, 'Just can you please give this a beat? Because you don't know what's going on. You don't know what's happened.'"

"And she brought up things, like the letter and the fact that I wasn't at the live show, and how those things were like nails in the coffin for her," Ebbs added. "And I kind of said to her, like, and I kept saying when she'd bring that stuff up, 'Babe, like, please, please, please, please. Like, there's so much context. There was so much context.'"

They said they then brought out the big guns, calling out the cheating allegations.

"There was one point where I did say, 'Babe, there's literally a rumor online that you've been cheating on me on national television,' ... she sort of said that her reasons for breaking up with me were kind of sitting at the surface before any of this other stuff happened," Ebbs said.

Siwa, for her part, previously said during an appearance on The Viall Files podcast that the cracks in her relationship with Ebbs started forming long before she started filming Celebrity Big Brother UK.

On their podcast, Ebbs shared their thoughts on Siwa's close friendship with Chris Hughes. While they stressed that they believe the pair's relationship is "platonic," Ebbs said their interactions think they went "too far."

"I never looked at those two and thought, 'They're gonna run away into the sun together,'" they explained. "I did think this is some sort of like strange platonic thing that had gone too far in my opinion, and something that was like crossing so many boundaries for me. But I never felt like they were going to run away together."

"Even when she said that comment to me at the after party, it wasn't like I didn't have this clarification of, 'Oh it's because of Chris,'" they continued. "What it showed to me was that it wasn't 100% platonic and I only say that, and I will say on record that I'm sure it is now, I don't know, I don't talk to either of them, but I'm sure it is now and I believe them when they say that."

"But I think what it alluded to me was -- and this is how I felt even when she was in there -- was that if you have half of a millisecond where you go, 'Ooh, is it?' shows to me that those interactions were not purely platonic," Ebbs added.

Elsewhere on the podcast, Ebbs addressed the drama surrounding the video they shared in which they revealed their and Siwa's split.

After noting that they and Siwa had a "five-hour conversation" following the wrap party, Ebbs said they received permission from Siwa to announce their split on social media.

"I don't mind if you say we've broken up. That's your journey. Do what you got to do,'" Ebbs claimed Siwa told them.

Despite allegedly getting approval to post on their social media, Ebbs said Siwa reached out and claimed Hughes was "upset."

"JoJo texted me, and said Chris was upset, and she texted me, and she said that I had dragged Chris into it, which I thought was a bit hilarious," Ebbs recalled, sharing why they ultimately deleted the video. "It's like, 'Chris dragged himself into it when he said referred to you as his girlfriend on a show and said that he would kiss you. But that's OK.'"

Ebbs further explained Siwa's alleged reaction, saying it was hurtful.

"I said, 'You have just dumped me, and this is the first thing you text me. I'm pretty f--king hurt by that,'" they recalled. "She was like, 'You're insinuating that I left you for Chris,' and I said, 'I'm really sorry that I'm made it out like that. What I was trying to say is that essentially validating my own experience and feelings from what I watched and felt from you.'"

According to Ebbs, Siwa -- who identified as a lesbian prior to the show, but came out as queer during filming -- double downed on her claim that her friendship with Hughes was just platonic.

"She kept just going, 'Me and Chris are friends, me and Chris are friends,'" Ebbs claimed. "And I said, 'This is news to me.'"

Ebbs said they told Siwa they "understand" that she and Hughes are friends, they weren't aware of that "until right now."

Ebbs recalled what she allegedly then told Siwa. "Chris, in your mind is not part of your story of why you're not with me, he is a part of mine, and that is because of the way that both of you acted, but he acted," they said. "And if he doesn't want to take that level of responsibility for the way that he acted towards someone that had a partner, that's on him. I did not start this."

As for why they ultimately took their video down, Ebbs claimed that Siwa told them she wouldn't come over to talk unless they did.

They went on to reflect on their final conversation.

"I felt really understood by her. In that time that we shared after I felt like I finally got to say my piece," Ebbs said. "I told her everything I felt in there, everything I witnessed everything. How hard it was for me. I felt like my boundaries were crossed. How I felt really hurt that she did it knowing what I was going through on the outside, knowing my relationship history and my past trauma. And I felt like she got me. She got upset, she cried. We had a moment."

Ebbs gave some insight into their breakup, saying, "There were things in our relationship that she brought to my attention that I agreed on. And I said, 'Yeah. Sometimes when I'm feeling triggered and feeling in my own sort of abandonment stuff, I can show up as a really s--ty partner sometimes."

"And that is my journey, and I agreed with her," they added. "And I said, yeah, you have every f--king right to reflect on that and be like, I didn't like that because I agree with you. And I, like obviously said to you at the time, yeah, I'm acting not nice."

Ebbs claimed they and Siwa "came to an agreement" that they would keep her video up, and Siwa "would squash the romantic conversation" about her and Hughes.

"She was doing a little press run, and so she was like, ''I'll squash that. You leave your video if it's still rearing its head,'" Ebbs said. 'I said to her, 'If it's still rearing its head and people are saying that you two are together or something, I'm happy to get back on the phone in a week and we can clear it up together.'"

"And then I texted her thanking her for the conversation later in the day and she blew up at me about re-uploading the video," they continued. "And I was so confused because I genuinely was like I thought this was like our plan.' She just kept again going on about Chris. And then I kept saying, 'Chris stuck his foot in it before I ever made a video. You have to take responsibility for that.'"

Ebbs concluded their thoughts on the video by saying that they told Siwa. "[The way] you two acted like that in the house, it's not on me," they recalled telling their now-ex. "And then I deleted it because I didn't want to fight with her."

However, Ebbs became emotional while they discussed how Siwa was "making fun of" them during the latter's appearance on The Viall Files podcast.

Also, during their podcast, Ebbs addressed claims they were "grooming" Siwa, 21, throughout their relationship due to the six years between them.

Ebbs claimed that they were "groomed by a teacher" from the ages of 18 to 20, so the allegations about their relationship with Siwa hit them "hard."

"Dealing with that online commentary has been, again, really hard, because it does lose, it creates a sense of, it's invalidating to people [who] have actually been a victim of grooming because that s--t's not f--king chill," they said.

"In terms of the conversation around our age gap, firstly, we see men [like] Leonardo DiCaprio, he dates women notoriously half his of age and younger," they added. "... So I think there is misogyny at play."

Ebbs reflected on their split from Siwa in an interview with Betches.

In the weeks since their breakup, Ebbs said they've been "the most depressed I’ve been in six years, for real."

"There have been so many times in the past month when I’ve thought about disappearing when this all feels way too overwhelming," they said. "The person who used to be my support system has not only vanished but turned against me and allowed this behavior to continue towards me. Everyone’s talking about me, but not to me."

"I feel voiceless, and that's a really big trigger for me because of things that I've grown up with," they added. "People are calling me names. People are making assumptions about my character. And when you’re in it, it feels like it’s never going to go away."

While Ebbs stressed that they don't believe Siwa cheated, their "boundaries were crossed in a way that felt like a betrayal of trust repeatedly around affection."

"I believe she made a lapse in judgment, and I was obviously collateral in that, and I wish that didn’t happen because it was incredibly hurtful," they explained. "But I do not believe that she had malicious intent in that interaction."

Ultimately, however, Ebbs said, "I feel a bit like I’ve been this pawn that's been moved around in this story by Big Brother, by JoJo, by her PR team, by the tabloids. And I feel really beaten around by that because it’s just not something I asked for. And I think at the end of the day, the boring headline is: I’m just heartbroken, and I’ve just gone through a really messy breakup that I didn’t see coming, and I’m in shock, and I’m picking up the pieces of my love life and of my life in that."

Meanwhile, Ebbs and the Betches reporter discussed how queer breakups differ from heterosexual ones.

It's like when a man breaks up with you, you can kind of compartmentalize it and be like, 'Okay, okay, cool,'" Ebbs said. "When a woman does, you're like, 'Oh, I'm a terrible person.' It becomes so personal. It's strange."

They also noted that they believe their split from Siwa wouldn't have blown up as it has if they were straight.

"I'm telling you right now, if Chris Hughes had a girlfriend or if he was even just casually seeing someone on the outside and was acting like that, I don't know what kind of conversation we would be having," Ebbs said. "I believe there is a small percentage of the conversation that is influenced by people’s either unconscious or conscious homophobia."